January 23, 2011

  • Should anti-bullying legislation include enumerated categories for victim groups?

    Intro:

    I started and run a forum called Responsible Public Debate at the local Ethical Society in St. Louis, MO.  I invite various speakers to present their position in contrast to another.  They give their   presentation, respond to each other's points, and then we take audience questions.  Two weeks later after some fact checking, video uploading, and some argument mapping we meet again to build off of the cases laid out in the debate, evaluate the outcomes of the fact checking, and catch all those loose ends that typically tend to get lost when debates come and go.  All in all, it can be a very enriched experience tackling an issue for those who participate.  This is an exercise in civility and responsible epistemology and a learning experience on just how to make this kind of thing happen.  Ideally, I'd like to see RPD groups (or something like them) pop up all over the country at a grass roots level and become an expected staple of a healthy democratic society.  I'm also sure to promote any other forums in the area and abroad that embody similar values and give shout outs to instances of healthy cross-ideological conversations that happen in our media. 


    RPD4:  Should anti-bullying legislation include enumerated categories for victim groups?

    The argument map (click to rebiggen):

    The issue is about including a clause in anti-bullying legislation that goes out of its way to define specific categories of victim groups.  The clause reads:

    Bullying that is reasonably perceived as being motivated by actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, sexual orientation as defined in section 557.035, intellectual ability, physical appearance, or a mental, physical or sensory disability or disorder; or on the basis of association with others identified by these categories; is prohibited.

    Does this help or hinder?

    My answer:  It probably helps

    Eleven states that have enumeration in their laws have fewer reported cases of bullying.  As even the research points out, correlation is not causation, but the logic behind why enumeration helps seems more solid than the logic against it.  Enumeration empowers teachers to be able to speak up and say that something like "being gay" is okay in some authoritative sense where otherwise they might fear losing their job for being some gay activist.  It is legal in Missouri to fire someone for being gay or to kick them out of their apartment and so have a specific legal clause that ensures this category is protected means that teachers can freely do their job.  It also enables students who have a minority status to feel more secure when perhaps the local prejudices of the school they attend might otherwise seem set against them by default.  Even if more tolerant and understanding school districts happen to be the ones most likely to adopt enumerated policies (in other words, the enumeration didn't exactly cause the benefit), this doesn't seem like an argument against the positive case for enumeration.  Its seems more like an argument for a change in attitude on behalf of the states and school boards to get in step with the idea behind the legislation which would further contribute to that end. 

    I await to see the evidence that shows that enumeration somehow lop-sides the focus on protecting certain kinds of victims over others that have not been spelled out.  It is not like we are introducing teachers to the concepts of ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.  They were there all along and I don't think calling attention to them is somehow mental sabotage or blinders towards other more vague kinds of bullying as much as it is legal structure to protect all parties involved, enabling them to do what should be done.  Most of us have probably been bullied at some point in the past as one of our debaters pointed out (I think I can count the number of times on one hand for me), but some of us were bullied much more frequently than others and for basically the same set of obvious reasons.  Some of the broadest sides of the barn need to be spelled out and the Safe Schools Act can simply add an open-ended clause in addition.  The punishments for bullying, as I understand it, are no more harsh for any other kind, so this doesn't appear to be a "thought crimes" issue.  Certainly more study could be done on the issue to tease out every angle which could be addressed to further inhibit bullying in schools. 


    Outro:

    I'd like to again thank Kerry Messer from the Missouri Family Network and Morgan Keenan from PROMO for participating in our forum.  The video of their debate can be found here.

    Ben

Comments (18)

  • There should not be anti-bullying legislation. This is just a ruse to grow government power and have it intrude of family life.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Next thing you know, the government will be inviting itself over for Christmas dinner, bringing gifts and a fruitcake, asking how your Great Aunt Beverly is doing, and ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - I'm not sure anti-bullying legislation is the greatest tactical advantage for governmental tyranny.  You call it a "ruse" but you don't challenge any of the facts or the research presented in terms of its efficacy.  I mean this politely:  why should someone take your perspective seriously?  Thanks for commenting.

    Ben

  • @WAR_ON_ERROR - Facts mean nothing to the Left except as a means to obfuscate the truth. What I stated was the truth: Legislation grows government power.

    And when legislation governing the behavior children is enacted the government gains power over children. Power over children is for parents not government.

    When dealing with the Left, always challenge their premise. It's ALWAYS wrong. If the premise is wrong all the facts in the world still mean nothing.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Oh, this raises lots of questions. 

    Should we get rid of all legislation?  Is the legislation on every issue currently perfect?  Should the government just stop legislating as though no problems need to be solved? 

    Should schools not have any rules for punishing bullies? 

    I'm not really sure what you are advocating in a positive sense. 

    Ben

  • @WAR_ON_ERROR - No wait, LBTP has a point.  Which is why child labor laws, child abuse laws, and child sex trafficking laws should be abolished too.

  • @Andrea_TheNerd - You are committing the error of making nonsensical generalizations.

    Labor laws protect the worker from abusive employers. Work is sacred and is essential to the inalienable right to pursuit happiness, that is endowed by the Creator.

    Child abuse falls under laws that already exist such as assault. So "Child abuse" laws serve no other purpose than to extend the power of government into family life.

    Any sort of human trafficking is illegal so child anti trafficking laws are redundant and were created simply for the benefit of politicians who wished to polish their public image.

    Another thing you are doing in your comments is far worse than making nonsensical generalizations. You are DEMONIZING the opposition. The objective of your comments is not to pursue truth but to make me look criminally insensitive.

    The Left ALWAYS does that. Demonizing the opposition is standard operating procedure for the totalitarian Left.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace -  "Child abuse falls under laws that already exist such as assault. So "Child abuse" laws serve no other purpose than to extend the power of government into family life."  [emphasis mine]

    And yet I've already said:  "you don't challenge any of the facts or the research presented in terms of its efficacy."  The benefits presented in the research should be understood to be equivalent to or in direct contradiction to:  "no other purpose."  There is a purpose:  To reduce bullying in schools.  So again, you still haven't challenged any of the relevant facts.  

    "The Left ALWAYS does that. Demonizing the opposition..."

    Um...did do that?  Don't I represent a leftist position here?  Perhaps you are "...committing the error of making nonsensical generalizations" as well?

    Just saying.

    Ben

  • @WAR_ON_ERROR - What I am doing is called reasoning.

    It's something foreign to members of the Left. Useless citation of facts serves no purpose if the principles being discussed are erroneous.

    Your major objective as a leftist is to obfuscate the truth and demonize the opposition.

    You do this by setting an arbitrary standard (that facts and citations are the only thing that make an effective, valid argument) and then demanding that your opposition adhere to it.

    Then you make the illogical error of appeal to emotion by laying down a guilt trip about your opposition not caring about children.

    You can't expect classically educated people to fall for that kind of hogwash.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Do me a favor: either start making sense, or shut the fuck up.  My boyfriend thinks he's doing you a favor by talking to you like you're sane instead of simply walking away from this discussion and coming over here for dinner with me.  He does this because he's a nice guy and likes to give everyone the benefit of a doubt.  But now you're cutting into my real life with your ideological vomit, and I'm seriously pissed off.

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - If you care about harm to children, which obviously you do, then you are free to defend why you feel free toss out facts about the actual harm to children.  Since you are a reasoning person, by your own admission, this should be no problem for you.  

    Ben

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - Oops.  And looks like I have a dinner to attend.  We can continue this another day.

    Cheers,
    Ben

  • @Andrea_TheNerd - There you go with the abusive language. You can't reason. That's why what I say doesn't make sense to you. But being abusive to the opposition always makes sense, right?

  • I think the laws would be okay. I was bullied a lot when I was a kid. I wish parents today would just teach there kids to be nicer. I really like this blog. Very well structured. I like your chart. It is very nice. Anyway, cool blog. Oh and btw I live in STL! I go to Webster! :D

  • @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace - I can't see anything in this blog post or in any of my comments that come off as abusive directed at you or anyone else so I would appreciate it (if you are going to continue to be a welcome guest here) if you would focus on responding to my arguments rather than being offended by Andy (Andrea_TheNerd).  

    Kerry Messer is a Christian who defended the position that enumeration was unnecessary and possibly harmful in our debate.  Both he and his opponent in the debate, Morgan Keenan, agreed that they believed that bullying was wrong and that we should be protecting children as best we can (as you can see from Messer's opening statement from the video link in the outro of this post).  The question from there was what actually does that?  Do you have something to offer to that effect or not?  
    Ben

  • @Darth_Windows - Hey cool!  You could come to some of our events if you want.  Message me and find us on Facebook or something.

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