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  • Pychen & "Laws of Logic and Materialism"

    Intro:

    This question was originally addressed to In_Reason_I_Trust (link), but I thought I would give a concise answer that I think is easy to understand. 


    @pychen - Hey Peter,

    "What is logic in your worldview? What is it's atomic mass? What color is it? What does logic smell like?  How do you account for it in your worldview? I would assert that you are using a word that has no basis in your worldview. Yet, without which you comment, and even your ability to live for one day is impossible."

    Doesn't logic just apply to anything that exists?  For instance the law of identity:  x = x  How could anything that exists fail to be "logical" in this sense?  Could God create something that exists embodying some other logical law contrary to identity?  That sounds like a "can god create a rock so big that he can't pick it up?" kind of question.  And I'm sure we both know those are invalid.  So the real basis of logic seems to be mere existence and it doesn't really matter whether it is material existence or immaterial existence (or a combination of the two).  Logic will always apply regardless as long as something can be said to exist.  Is there some problem with materialists believing that reality exists?

    Ben  Continue reading

  • (Bible Prophecy) Ezekiel, Tyre, and Nebuchadnezzar

    Intro:

    The following survey of apologetic material will cover the prophecy of Ezekiel against the city of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-14 vs Ezekiel 29:17-20), specifically focusing on the supposed retraction of the prophecy in chapter 29.  It appears in one chapter that Ezekiel says Nebuchadnezzar will totally devastate the city and carry away plunder and then three chapters later when that doesn't quite work out, he changes the target to Egypt.  As is, that would be a fairly clear cut case of "never wrong and sometimes right."  After completing this survey I realized my previous conclusions about this set up were mistaken.  I will hit up Robert Bradshaw (link), godandscience.org (link), Apologetics Press (link), JP Holding (link), and atheists Farrell Till (link) and Richard Carrier (link).

    JT (link) is having a conversation with Bryan Harris (link) that involves this prophecy and I thought now might be a decent time to double check things. Continue reading

  • (torture) Cookie panning.

    Intro:  Come to the dark side liberal side on the torture issue.  We has cookies.

     

    Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

    Just look what puppies did for Dr. Doom!

    Outro:

    It seems Ventura might be correct that part of the "move on" campaign might have partially to do with the liberal hands in the other cookie jar of guilt.  I guess Obama should have just fired everyone from Washington on his first day. 

    Ben

  • (youtube) HD Stereoscopic Test

    Intro:

    The first test (link) went fairly well.  Here's test number two, now that I learned a few lessons from the first go round.  For those of you who don't know, to view stereoscopic images (or videos) you'll need to cross your eyes basically.  Holding up an object like a pencil in front of your view may help you focus.  You should see three images total: one 3D in the middle and the two side images should be blurry.  Be sure to turn on the HD and go full screen.  Enjoy!


  • (Terminator) Conversation Between Derek and Ben

    Intro:

    This is a conversation that began on facebook concerning the now canceled TV show, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and the movie, Terminator Salvation.  Anyone is free to join in. 


    Derek wrote:

    This will be long, so I don't feel bad if you don't want to talk about it this much, or if you think I'm being over-zealous. Just thought I'd share my thoughts, in hopes you'll share yours.

    1. The TV show. Continue reading

  • (youtube) More Animaniacs Songs

    Intro:  As you can tell from the awesome Boba Fett jacket (thank you, Andrea!), I'm officially cooler than you (whoever you are).  And yes, the wrist rockets actually work (If someone wants to see, I might post a demonstration).  I suppose I may have a challenger though from Topher, on Dollhouse (which turned out to be a much better show than I at first expected).  Yeah he's a programming whiz and all that, but does he know the nations of the world, all the presidents, and the states and their capitals (without imprinting!?!)?  I don't think so...

    Outro:  So there you have it.  I'm not quite ready to post anything serious of myself up on youtube, so it's fun to do these just for practice.

    Ben

  • Evaluating Christianity & "Misrepresenting Creationists as Liars"

    Intro:

    The following (lengthy) conversation can be found over on Evaluating Christianity's blog (link, link, and link).  Basically this is an atheist to atheist dispute (that went rather well, actually) regarding how often creationists are accused of "lying" and how I think they probably harbor no actual intention to deceive.   


    On that first link above I commented thus:

    Hey, I’ve been wanting to look into the claim often made of “creationist liars” and it seems to me more often than not (or perhaps just as often as any group of human beings) that inordinate bias is more at work than any willful intent to deceive anyone. Evolutionists just don’t seem to be able to fathom the stark raving madness of that sometimes and too often jump at the easy splash title of “lying for Jesus” when it’s probably just not true. Anyway, what I’m getting at, since you say you “ordinarily” go with B, is a request by me for a link to a really good case (or set of cases) that shows definitively that creationists have an inordinate habit of actually lying rather than being self-deceived. Any help?

    Ben


    MO responds:

    ben: “Anyway, what I’m getting at, since you say you “ordinarily” go with B, is a request by me for a link to a really good case (or set of cases) that shows definitively that creationists have an inordinate habit of actually lying rather than being self-deceived. Any help?”

    How about Morris’ That Their Words May Be Used Against Them. An entire book of quotes without context (or out of context), which makes the people saying them appear to be saying something other than they were actually saying (amusingly torn apart in this review of a review on Amazon). He’s using out-of-context quotes as a weapon. If that isn’t mendacious, I don’t know what is.

    If that doesn’t do it for you, any number of blogs on scienceblogs regularly pick apart big “C” Creationism.

    Essentially, Creationists typically learn just enough science to come to the wrong answer, then pick apart that wrong path to the wrong answer with their own biblically centered wrong path to the answer that’s so far off it isn’t even wrong. Then, when they’re corrected, they ignore the corrections and rephrase the original, nasty version of science that only lives in their heads (the one where Darwin had gaymansex with Hitler while the notorious social-Darwinist Stalin used “Darwinism” to justify the gulags and pogroms, and hordes of atheists forced the USA to keep slaves before banning prayer in church and instituted mandatory gay marriages and complementary abortions). For more, see Ray Comfort’s blog. No, I’m not going to link to it.
    I doubt very much that they see themselves as liars. They have big “T” Truth, you see, and God never mentioned evolution in Genesis, and 6,000 years isn’t enough time for it and Man can’t have common descent preceding Adam & Eve (since one came from a rib and the other from dirt). Besides, if Man came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?

    Then the next generation takes the last one’s wrongness and repeats it. That’s why you still see cliches like Darwin quote mined and “no transitional fossils”, I think.


    I respond:

    MO,

    Hey, thanks for responding.

    “Essentially, Creationists typically learn just enough science to come to the wrong answer, then pick apart that wrong path to the wrong answer with their own biblically centered wrong path to the answer that’s so far off it isn’t even wrong.”

    Exactly. By your own definition I wouldn’t call that “lying.” That’s passionate ignorance in action that grabs one quote out of context because “that must be what they really meant.” It’s an extreme form of religiously motivated confirmation bias and probably nothing like a willful intent to deceive. I imagine that’s exactly what I’d get out of that Henry Morris book you linked to. You call people like that liars and obviously you’ve just contributed *further* to their delusion-scape because they know full well they weren’t lying and now they think they know one more thing about you. You call honest people liars when disagreed with. Oopsie. Horrible for “evilutionist” PR. “Creationist Liars: They’re not even Lying.” is much more like it. Even if they are lying, you’ve played right into their hands, because they can just lie again. My message is: Stop calling them liars and just stick with showing why they are mistaken. I wish all the sciences blogs would figure that out.

    Ben  Continue reading

  • Luke Muehlhauser & "Caricatures of Christianity"

    Intro:

    These are reposted comments of mine from Luke's excellent post over at Common Sense Atheism (link).


    Luke,

    This is a great post.  All too often Christians react to things that are entirely accurate.  For instance, if you say they talk as though they are married to god and then point out that the Bible literally portrays them as the bride of Christ, how in the world are they going to complain? 

    Like you, I actually appreciate a dead on “caricature.”  If someone can actually broadside me with a description of my position that sounds absolutely ridiculous at face value and in fact describes what I think…that’s valuable to me.  That’s accountability.  That’s like the whole point to get you to take a step back and think…am I nuts?  Am I sure these crazy sounding claims are actually defensible?  Do I really have my feet on the ground here?  Of course, on the other hand you get really horrible, flakey and bigoted caricatures that misrepresent things so badly as to not even be worth responding to.  For example, one may present an argument from evil in a highly dispassionate manner that articulates why it is implausible that a good, all powerful, all knowing deity is responsible for the spiritual health of the humans of earth.  Time and time again, Christian after Christian will summarize, “So basically what you are saying is that God didn’t do things how you want them done,” as though the nature of anything I say hinges on trivialities of human experience.  Or they accuse me of “complaining” as though I actually think God exists to complain to.  Such summaries might actually resonate if I could tell their unspecified theory of divine management from the chaotic anything goes world we apparently live in.  I honestly don’t think a good god is at work here tending our souls towards salvation any more than I think a cosmic basketball coach is secretly preparing everyone for the afterlife NBA.  Am I complaining to the basketball coach I don’t think exists?  Am I mad I didn’t get to play more basketball as a kid?  Is the jury still out on whether or not most of us will be harlem globe trotter material by the end of our days?  I don’t think so. 

    Christians don’t tend to even put themselves into the argument as stated and test their summaries or rebuttals to see if they even work.  They just react…like people who are married to their god and have a very limited tolerance for considering divorce. 

    So yeah, I get really tired of the misrepresentation and the lack of fairness and honesty…the lack of self awareness and such from my Christian opposition in debate land.  I like how you carefully dissected one such iteration of that bullshit.  I know this is a value war and has ultimately little to do with argument and evidence, so actually being kind to Christian bloggers is important, but at some level bullshit is bullshit.  And I have just as much trouble as everyone else trying to justify why exactly their brains so often can’t seem to put one thought in front of the other even in just hypothetical terms. 

    Ben  Continue reading

  • Bill Vallicella & "Compatibilism and Moral Responsibility"


    Intro:

    Bill Vallicella over on Maverick Philosopher (link) argues for libertarian free will [1] and against compatibilism [2]. He sets up the basics of compatibilism rather well [3], then adds one further component that he believes it cannot deal with [4].  However, what he fails to realize is that his third criteria when properly understood is the same as the first criteria [5].    


    Vallicella gives an example to show that we do things apart from our pre-determined desires:
    ...I did not will and execute my backpacking excursion while in the grip of wild passions, but after calm thought and for presumably good reasons: to benefit from a particularly strenuous form of exercise; to appreciate the incredible beauty of John Muir's "Range of Light"; to have intense experiences impossible down below, etc.

    All Vallicella has to see is that there is a spectrum of passions at work here.  There are "wild passions," and then more subdued, patient passions that are content to be satisfied on a longer time table.  This allows us to navigate in a seemingly more dispassionate way via the use of reason.  Vallicella would not sit down to use his reason if he did not WANT the anticipated "intense experiences."  In other words we still WANT to use reason in order to acquire the fulfillment of the desire and this is inescapable. Reason is a tool and not a motivation in and of itself. 

    Vallicella does not bother to justify the belief that we sometimes do things in a literal indifferent sense [6] and it is interesting to see him point out the obvious contradiction in Leibniz's position [7] along those same lines.  One might think Vallicella could easily correct himself on the issues he is getting wrong here.  However, Vallicella moves on to challenge compatibilistic moral responsibility: 

    When I keenly regret and feel guilty about doing something or leaving something undone, I have a sense of moral responsibility. I say to myself: I ought not to have done that! (Think of a case of genuine moral as opposed to prudential regret.) Since 'ought' implies 'can,' I infer that it was within my power to refrain from doing the regrettable deed. And that means: it was within my power to refrain from doing the deed even given all the antecedent and circumambient conditions and all the motives and excuses swirling before my mind at the time of the deed.

    I would not dispute that most people probably feel that way.  However it is the philosopher's job to investigate deeper and make sure things are actually as they appear [8].  Vallicella begs the question by presenting the fact that he has the wrong idea in another context.  If your strongest desire at the time was to do what you now think is the wrong thing, nothing changes the fact that it was your strongest desire at the time.  Why would have you done it if it wasn't?  Taking those hindsight feelings too seriously entails a logical contradiction that you can magically feel and not feel a certain way at a given moment in your personal history that is long gone.  Even libertarians would agree that once a decision was made the decision was made, wasn't it?  Everyone, including an "open theism" god, knows what it will always have been.

    Vallicella: 

    In short, moral responsibility entails libertarian freedom of the will. If I were free merely in some such compatibilist sense as the one above defined, then there would be no accounting for one's sense of moral responsibility. One could of course claim that moral responsibility and regret for past misdeeds are illusory psychological phenomena.  Accordingly, one feels guilt and regret, but these emotions are not revelatory of anything: one simply did what one had to do in the circumstances, and it is a mistake to feel guilt or regret or moral responsibility. But if one holds that they are not illusory, then I think one is committed to libertarian freedom of the will.

    If we aren't trying to justify some absolutist moral cosmic scheme with moral infractions of the past that "still mean something" no matter what, it is easy to see that the "guilt and regret" one feels in the present can channel into revealing what the more appropriate behavior would be in a similar future scenario [9].  Thus it would in fact be a mistake to not feel guilty about it if you reason that you should do otherwise in a future circumstance [10].


    Outro:

    Obviously any sensible understanding of compatibilism shows that moral responsibility still has a perfectly legitimate place. 

    Ben


    Notes:

    [1]  Libertarian free will (link) is the idea that the will is completely or at least partially undetermined by anything prior to the decision.  I reject this view primarily because it amounts to what I call, "free will tourettes."  If you truly do things for no reason, then it is by definition completely random.  (back)

    [2] 
    Compatibilism (link) is the idea that free will, when properly understood, is compatible with the idea of a deterministic universe.  This is my view and yes, I live in that horrible world where I am forced to do what I want to do.  :p  (back)

    [3] 
    Vallicella: 

    I meant that I was doing what I wanted to do as I wanted to do it. I was not subject to any external or internal impediments, or any external or internal compulsions.


    Note this is basically the same definition I recently gave to Wintery Knight (link).(back)

    [4]  Vallicella: 

    3. P's willing (wanting, etc.) to do A is motivated by reasons rather than passions, and is indeed motivated by good reasons. 

    Even if we were motivated by reasons instead of passions, did we give ourselves our reasons?  Did we decide how keen our intellectual faculties really are?  As I argue in the text, clearly reason serves our other more patient desires.  Either way though, Vallicella is clearly mistaken.  (back)

    [5]  Vallicella: 

    1. P wills (wants, desires, chooses, etc.) to do A. 

    (back)


    [6]
      Vallicella: 

    Some of us believe in an absolute spontaneity of action. We feel ourselves to be the unmoved movers of (some) of our actions, whether these be such mental actions as decision, or the physical implementations of decisions.  This is called the liberty of indifference. 

    I demonstrated the contrary in my post, "J. P. Holding & 'Psychological Egoism'" a long time ago.  We may feel like we do things for "no reason," but on closer inspection this is not really the case.  What we really mean is that we may do something "just because" for no vastly important reason and we exaggerate.  It is emotionally inefficient to get into the little details and so it is simple to say you had no reason (or desire), when in fact you did.  It was just a dull reason (or desire).  It's still a personal desire of some sort and if we truly had no self interest at all in doing something, we simply wouldn't do anything at all.  In the link provided, I explain this as it applies in different circumstances.  (back)

    [7]  Vallicella: 

    Inasmuch as Leibniz holds that reasons incline without necessitating, he rejects determinism and embraces liberty of indifference. For a determining reason is a necessitating reason. But he plainly states that all actions are determined. So he rejects liberty of indifference.

    Vallicella manages to rhetorically elude contradicting himself but the error is basically the same.   (back)

    [8]  Otherwise we will naturally create a philosophy of superficial appearances.  While it is somewhat understandable why many theists and other types of libertarians may desire to maintain this natural disposition of the human mind, that doesn't stop it from having all the technical difficulties that come along with it.  Such appearances may even be desirable to maintain (though I think it too often just complicates things further in complicated situations), but that doesn't mean we should take them seriously in an ontological sense if we really want to understand what is going on. (back)

    [9]  Or even in terms of properly adjusting your current self image in light of your past misdeeds you wish to psychologically distance yourself from.   The only practical effect in this case is figuring out who you are even if you never stumble into similar circumstances ever again. (back)

    [10]
    Or even if it is appropriate to prevent or condemn someone else in a current analogous circumstance for the sake of the greater good of yourself and those around you.  With a mere slight adjustment of our sensibilities, it is obvious our guilty feelings on the matter are not in error.  They help put us on the sociological/moral map.  (back)