Wednesday, 07 May 2008

  • Mr. Jargon, DarkWolfofVoid & "Not Feeding Trolls"

    @mr_jargon - 

    mkay. That's fine by me. I can do the talking.

    There's no reason to talk to Bryan as he hasn't really brought up anything new as much as he's just got his ducks in a row (as he sees it) for his own pleasure. More power to him. Denialism and misrepresentation are not a critique and I'm sorry if I don't feel very discredited because he can woo a sympathetic audience with an array of half truths. Should I have serious doubts about my basic understanding of emotion, religion, and spirituality? Should I think his subjective experiences are good cause to believe a panentheistic entity is worth taking seriously? Should I pretend like my view of the Allverse isn't reasonably in the ballpark of where multiverse theorists are currently at? Why should I give "nuh uh" and a slew of academic bigotry and misdirection the time of day? If Bryan could be moderated, he would have moderated himself to some extent already. As it is, he shows no signs of being able to control himself in any meaningful regard. I'm sorry if you can't see the numerous conversational deal breakers that go well beyond "not being able to defend myself." I appreciate the offer, but you apparently don't understand the gravity of the situation. The substance of your two positions may be similar and your enthusiasm is understandable, but there are better ways and worse ways to go about defending that position. Bryan does not serve the conversation, he serves himself.

    You appear to think of nominalism in terms of a universalist construct and fail to apply nominalism to itself. It doesn't make sense to ask whether we can be consistent nominalists, as we should be asking if we can be absolutely consistent since virtually all of our sensibilities in one way or another do not correspond readily to the "real world." This isn't so much a given as it is a matter of being informed of the long list of how our world comes together and isn't quite what we assume it is. Human epistemology and possibly any knowledge base from any knowing being cannot be mathematically precise as it is always in an abbreviated state of flux, based on at least some givens which can't be anything other than assumed, and our convenient assumptions are no more precise just because we'd like to think they are. Recognizing the state of flux does not make it not a state of flux and universalism does not appear to be cut out to deal with that. From a realist perspective, the patterns are as real as they appear to be, but our reference point does not grant us the most accurate viewing of any pattern we think we have identified. I don't think it really matters how you put it.

    I'm at a loss as to how anyone can truly commit to one measure of knowledge. Perhaps some version of foundationalism is the "ideal" since practically speaking you have to connect anything you come up with to your most reducible givens, but it seems prudent to be able and willing to check your knowledge base, your claims, and your arguments from as many different perspectives as you happen to know of. Why shake off coherency, context, and whatever other measure there may be, or pretend like your given foundation is really that secure? The path of truth is paved with shades of failure. We can only do the best we can. We can stick with Carrier's labels for now if the ideal of "acentricism" feels like a cop-out. I'm not trying to pull one over on you. It would help your case (in my eyes, at least) a great deal if you would point out specific problems you think this is causing rather than (apparently) using it as a scapegoat whenever things get rough. If you think that's what *I'm* doing in some way, perhaps we can help each other meet each other's criteria.

    You're going to have to set some specific goal posts on your letter (a) if I've failed here, because I really don't know what you are looking for. You are more knowledgeable than I and we can run with whatever your call is, and then you can show me where you think it messes up. Perhaps I will better understand what the deal is in that event. The main persistent factor is the loaded questions you tend to ask and how much time it takes me to figure out that's the case, since there's no direct answer. I have a more lengthy piece on all of this here if you are interested.

    Your apparent methodologism (I just made that term up, btw) seems to border on claiming that ordinary people don't possess any truth values if they don't have a stated method to carefully inspect. One wonders how such a method can even be found if you have nothing to work with to begin with. Surely this isn't what you mean, but it does rather sound like it often enough. "...but then again there is no 'evidence' for anything apart from some accepted epistemological context and ontological framework." I've yet to see where it matters as though different metrics shouldn't all be getting at basically the same idea and should effectively complement one another rather than generating ginormous truth values undetected by a slight shift in perspective. Are we dealing with the same reality or not? Perhaps you can come up with some reasonable counter-examples. I'm not claiming that taking the time to examine how you go about things isn't important in its own right, but you do seem to be at an extreme.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "eliminative materialism" as though that's not your own pejorative spin on what I've said in the past. What does materialism eliminate? Does it eliminate the relative reality of what's important in the personal sphere of things or does it eliminate a possibly faulty understanding of what makes it the way it apparently is? You must be big on first impressions? :P "I commune with God and witness miracles every day" is something Ethansudman told me to justify the probability of miracles in history. Are these things required for one to think a thought or know anything? Is it reasonable to imbue this on just about everyone participating in such a discussion? Why do I have to pay the bill for meta-scammers who poison the well with unnecessary "add-ons"? Are your mere impressions of consciousness or the nature of reality "mundane givens" or personal speculations? We can agree on "I'm conscious" and "I'm not exactly sure what that necessarily means", right? Seems pretty in the ballpark of a mundane given to me. I'm not sure how you manage to avoid the truth of "I confront" as though you are not a "you" in some way and do not "confront" anything in some way. It's just a starting place. One does not wake up in the morning and know all the secrets of the universe. At least that's one of my mundane givens.

    I don't have a problem with studying philosophy, but I can't change what that typically entails. There are a lot of positions out there and one can only imagine they are not all correct, right? Currently (off and on, at least) I'm suffering through Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason." I'm trying to be a good sport.

    BTW, what I was referring to before(and perhaps I misunderstood) is the quote, "I agree that there is no conclusive neutral evidence for Christianity..."

    Ben
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