The Meaning of Life
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I think Master Splinter in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 said it best:
On a macro-level, there is no known externally imposed meaning to life. There’s tons of speculation and revelatory presumption, but what I’m going to say here should be pluggable into most all of it.
There are things too small to take seriously in terms of your main stream emotions. There are things that are too big. There are things that are beyond your range on earth and things that are out of your time frame. Perhaps there are even things outside of a matter and energy context. In order to find peace in life it is important to set the appropriate boundaries of your emotional affairs. If you go too far in one direction or the other…you might notice it is not always appropriate to presume you must keep going. You may have to backtrack. The obvious goal is a livable life.
On the grand scale, if you are concerned about a big empty uncaring universe, then maybe you need to make that not your business. Contrary wise if you think the world reflects some wonderful craftsmanship you might feel too unjustifiably special or you might be in for a rude awakening when the world turns out to not be so wonderful. On the small scale a dis-contextual action has no meaning. Shooting a gun, flapping your arms…take them out of a hundred different scenarios and they are meaningless. Things that happen on the other side of the planet that you do not know of are not your business. Your emotional continuum will not function properly in full active knowledge of all the evil in the world. It is justified to have borders…though they need not ever be absolute. This means you will have many chaff feelings that you cannot take seriously in life and expect significant rewards. No farmer can cultivate the entire crop and he is best set to stick to his own fields in general.
Meaning is always contextual, specific, and limited. For instance if you ask what does the dictionary mean to a rock…at that level, the answer is meaninglessness though entirely meaningful to us. Language doesn’t apply. If you ask what the ink of a stroke to a single letter of the alphabet pertaining to a reference in the encyclopedia or what a word means in and of itself apart from other words in terms of your conversations with loved ones, you are going to come up short. However, in between…all words mean other words in a vast continuum of human things and there is where you find your emotional edification. So the rule of thumb here is if it stops working…stop. Think of this as the Goldilocks rule. There’s too big, too small, and just right.
Religion:
Religion really doesn’t solve anything but complicate the issue. Has God talked to you lately? Specifically? At length? In more than mystical hints or ancient texts directed at the entire species? In subjective ways that aren't applicable to dozens of "valid" interpretations? Looks like you have to figure out what your purpose in life is on your own anyway…and then maybe hope God working through random chance doesn’t contradict you. Sounds like trial and error to me. The best theistic meta-scams point you in the direction of your mundane life anyway. Do your chores. Love your family and friends. Respect life. Accept what you have when you have it. Etc. Do everything with your whole heart. What part of this requires God to be involved? He’s just a big galactic mirror reflecting your lazy star gazing back down to earth. Yoda agrees:
Unless you are getting direct quotes from heaven, in all likelihood any average agnostic and atheist is going to have to make their best judgment call with what they do have just like any Buddhist or Muslim.
Finding Meaning:
You experience meaning in context of your state of affairs. You have to apply yourself to your situation in order to find a satisfying measure of meaning. A cog in the machine isn’t going to feel very important if it isn’t connected to the rest of the system to where it can experience the reward that tension brings. If you’ve turned yourself into an eating and shitting factory that basically just passes time…guess what, you are going to reap what you sow. You will feel that way with or without a metaphysical scam.
If you aren’t doing anything you find meaningful…you probably need to ask yourself what would be meaningful to you. Be creative. Brainstorm a list even if you think it is silly. Then go back through it and see what is reasonable. And if you don’t want to live without whatever that is…you need to pack up and go and do whatever it is that is going to reciprocate that to you. You get what you put out, because meaning to your life isn’t necessarily handed to you. If you don’t know what that is when you ask yourself, the absolute only way is to either wait around, or go try things out. Some people are going to find something when they are forty worth living for. If you are only 13, it could be a long time. If you try things out now…you might get ahead of the game. You have to be an active necessary part of the picture to experience strong meaningful sensations. Most people are going to find their meaning actively courting a member of the opposite sex and participating in family life. That’s just the nature of the DNA game. Obviously it may not be for everyone.
If you need big absolute answers to big absolute questions, you are SOL. You can notice the fact that most people have lived their entire lives with entirely different big answers and that the animal kingdom lives their lives with not even the questions. If you know anything about the debate…you are going to be left with what you came in with.
Are you not good at anything? Try new things. Good at some things? Set goals based on those things. Figure out how to make the most of it. Not good at analytical thinking? I am. Ask me questions.
Brainstorm:
-What am I good at?
-What new things could I try?
-If I could make things any way I wanted, what would I think would be a meaningful arrangement?
-How can I make my life more like that picture in the long run?
-What do I think other people do to have meaning in life? What do I learn from that?
If you can’t answer any of these questions…it kinda sounds like you don’t really need to be asking the question, “What is the meaning of life?” Like maybe you don’t actually want an answer…you just want to feel justified complaining. And that of course is rewarding…negligibly. You’ve found a place in life bitching about not having a place in life. Hooray. This may or may not be more or less your own fault but taking pride in it is certainly a formula for its job security.
No matter what your meta-scam may be…or if you don’t subscribe to one at all…this info is going to be your ticket to success because God or whomever isn’t going to answer these questions for you by any direct means.
Things I recommend:
-Read a philosophy book or just any book on a topic that interests you, heck read a book about anything so that maybe you’ll stumble across something that interests you…have a regular influx of new ideas because obviously you are short on them.
-Do some volunteer work…take the pressure of your efforts in life off of yourself…do anything for other people and ask them what they get out of life.
-Exercise…if you have a healthy body…you’re likely to think of yourself in productive ways and feel good about it
-Let yourself escape in fantasy…you can find out what you really want.
-what I learned from the Eastern Orthodox: visit sick people, prisons, insane asylums, cemeteries and all extremes to the human condition…you will by nature feel your system out from the reflection of those situations on your inner self.
-Don’t change your life all at once…just add little things and they’ll build up over time. Focus on one thing at a time. Don’t exhaust all your internal resources. You are psychologically dependent on your own brand of depravity and it takes time to adjust to not being so stupid.
Myself:
Personally I have so many ideas about what I want to do with my system that I’m looking forward to a life of “leveling up.” I want my system to be that sharp and it takes time. I don’t necessarily trust it will happen on its own and getting good at life takes some attention to detail and I have no problem with that. Part of the Metaphysical Merry Go Round isn’t going to be just a game of proving things false (though that will likely be a necessity of incidence). The point is more about finding out what is possible in the realm of rewarding emotional edification…i.e. "spirituality."
Ben
Religion really doesn’t solve anything but complicate the issue. Has God talked to you lately? Specifically? At length?
It's called faith.....either try it or quite trying to disprove what you dont believe in...its ironic...
“Religion really doesn’t solve anything but complicate the issue. Has God talked to you lately? Specifically? At length?
It's called faith.....either try it or quite trying to disprove what you dont believe in...its ironic...”
His work of salvation…if few will be saved, what good is that to an individual among billions? Not very good odds.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....those sound like pretty good odds to me...........it has NOTHING to do with works.......
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? And faith in what, may I ask? What specifically?
God....Yehweh....name Him what you will....and yes I do have an idea as to what i'm talking about, although i understand the rhetorical nature of the question .......I have faith in God, because I just cant believe in random chance.....you said you "tried" once.....i say try again......being a Christian (i prefer follower of Jesus Christ....Mormons call themselves Christians).....isnt easy...its actually harder.....the way to Salvation is easy, but the life isnt.....which is why most people say "they've tried"........
If you take it seriously at all, one does not really get anything out of faith other than an unjustified excuse to have a positive attitude…
Eternal life isnt anything? Pardain my confusion, but that seems like a lot to me......living an eternal existence thats perfect.....unfathomable.....all at the risk of not being able to not see or hear God so he doesnt exist?.......
The best theistic meta-scams point you in the direction of your mundane life anyway. Do your chores. Love your family and friends. Accept what you have when you have it. Etc. Do everything with your whole heart. What part of this requires God to be involved?
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works (if you would like references i could give about 160 ).......Works once a person believes benefit the afterlife (heaven eternally).......my works are solely based on God to in the end glorify Him.....there are too many phenomena out there that can just be easily ignored to simply say that God doesnt exist because we cant physically see Him or touch Him......yet................i agree that we should find meaning in life.....and ask ourselves questions like "what am i good at?" and exercise....(gluttony is a huge pet-peeve of mine)......i dont think the part that agnostics and atheist understand is that being a "Believer" (we all technically believe in something pardon the jargon) we have just as many questions about our faith than we do answers......but a lot of our questions are insignificant to what God has pulled me through.......he doesnt just blindly seduce the masses to praise Him........He alone is meaning and life...I breath because he lets me ........I ask honest open questions to God all the time, that others might think are blasphemous....i ask questions in Bible College to the teachers about God and Science and sometimes dont get responses like i would expect....but that doesnt mean that I can quit believing in a Higher being because I cant see him.....i dont fued with other religions because it gives purpose......i want them to know the "truth" (what we as Christians believe is absolute truth)......there are very few things that God cannot do (lie, cheat, steal, etc you get the picture)........"We can do all things in Christ who strengthens me".......I just have a hard time believing that you cant believe in a higher being......as deep of insight that this post has you seem to seek spiritual guidance from somewhere......but honestly what risk do you take in believing in God (Yahweh)...?? Other than the materialistic point of view that people like to live it up, party, get high, whatever the case may be....that seems too empty (not that you do those things).......What have you got to lose? Suppose you believe in Jesus and we find out in the end that it never existed then what? You could feel satisfied that you lived a good life, because you embrace the idea of helping others as a good thing ie what you might be good at......whereas what if you didn't believe.......what risk do you honestly take in the idea of belief? Hypothetically what if I am right....and Jesus is the Son of God and he does offer Salvation to all....then what? I almost wish i could give my Salvation to those who dont believe just so they dont have to live in a cthonic existence for eternity......this is an honest question...what would you do to live eternally in a perfect existance? (regardless of belief i just want a straight answer...this isnt a comment to stir up anger...im trying to learn why you believe what you believe)...feel free to subscribe or leave comments on my site.....
EA,
“"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....those sound like pretty good odds to me.... .......it has NOTHING to do with works.......”
The Apostle James seems to disagree. And further to temper the picture, we’d also have to consider everyone that calls on Jesus whom Jesus will reject by saying he never knew them. No matter what Bible verse you add to this…the point remains in order to count the cost and wager your likelihood of success, few will be saved according to the Bible. This is neither here nor there to me, but it does seem rather ridiculous in retrospect. It’s like trying out for the basketball team. Most of us might as well just stay home. No amount of Disney movies is going to change that.
“God....Yehweh....name Him what you will....and yes I do have an idea as to what i'm talking about, although i understand the rhetorical nature of the question .......I have faith in God, because I just cant believe in random chance.....”
Oh, but random chance believes in you. ;)
“you said you "tried" once.....i say try again......being a Christian (i prefer follower of Jesus Christ....Mormons call themselves Christians).....isnt easy...its actually harder.....the way to Salvation is easy, but the life isnt.....which is why most people say "they've tried"........”
Well it wasn’t really about failure per se. It was more about needing a reality check and drowning for lack of one. I took Christianity seriously for 8 years. I don’t actually have a problem with working out my salvation as long as I am treated respectfully.
“If you take it seriously at all, one does not really get anything out of faith other than an unjustified excuse to have a positive attitude…“Eternal life isnt anything? Pardain my confusion, but that seems like a lot to me......living an eternal existence thats perfect.....unfathomable.....””
Eternal life isn’t on the table at this point in the discussion or I’d have to agree with you wouldn’t I?
“all at the risk of not being able to not see or hear God so he doesnt exist?.......”
Well there may be an infinite number of deities be-bopping around the allverse, but if they want to have a real relationship with me, they need to enter into my world through the front door of reality or else I’m going to consider them a thief and a robber for hopping the fence.
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works (if you would like references i could give about 160 )”
Yeah, there are plenty of other verses that clearly indicate otherwise. It’s a commingling of faith and works if you want to harmonize the message into something more coherent. There’s no sense downplaying works when ultimately it is an equal part of the equation of a Christian’s salvation. And anything in life for that matter. Good faith and relentless action are both required to serve any genuine goal.
“.......Works once a person believes benefit the afterlife (heaven eternally).......my works are solely based on God to in the end glorify Him.....there are too many phenomena out there that can just be easily ignored to simply say that God doesnt exist because we cant physically see Him or touch Him......”
Well I think I have some fairly good reasons for believing God, the Father does not exist that don’t have anything to do with the senses. But that would help.
“yet................i agree that we should find meaning in life.....and ask ourselves questions like "what am i good at?" and exercise....(gluttony is a huge pet-peeve of mine)......i dont think the part that agnostics and atheist understand is that being a "Believer" (we all technically believe in something pardon the jargon)”
I do have faith in object constancy. A lot of good that does me when the object isn’t there the next time I go back to it.
“we have just as many questions about our faith than we do answers......but a lot of our questions are insignificant to what God has pulled me through.......he doesnt just blindly seduce the masses to praise Him........He alone is meaning and life...I breath because he lets me ........I ask honest open questions to God all the time, that others might think are blasphemous....i ask questions in Bible College to the teachers about God and Science and sometimes dont get responses like i would expect....but that doesnt mean that I can quit believing in a Higher being because I cant see him.....i dont fued with other religions because it gives purpose......i want them to know the "truth" (what we as Christians believe is absolute truth)......”
Anyone who knows me knows I ask a relentless gauntlet of questions in any class. Obviously I’m interested in the truth.
“there are very few things that God cannot do (lie, cheat, steal, etc you get the picture)........"We can do all things in Christ who strengthens me".......I just have a hard time believing that you cant believe in a higher being......”
There certainly ought to be a greater state of being to our universe and a “higher” power…I just don’t think you can call it sentient. The sun is a higher power. You should check out my allverse posts to understand where I’m coming from there.
“as deep of insight that this post has you seem to seek spiritual guidance from somewhere......”
I don’t think that was implied anywhere in any of my posts. I think you are reading yourself into it.
“but honestly what risk do you take in believing in God (Yahweh)...??”
I don’t think it is good judgment to suppose God exists, so it really isn’t about risk.
“Other than the materialistic point of view that people like to live it up, party, get high, whatever the case may be....that seems too empty (not that you do those things).......What have you got to lose?”
Dignity and intellectual honesty.
“Suppose you believe in Jesus and we find out in the end that it never existed then what? You could feel satisfied that you lived a good life, because you embrace the idea of helping others as a good thing ie what you might be good at......whereas what if you didn't believe.......what risk do you honestly take in the idea of belief? Hypothetically what if I am right....and Jesus is the Son of God and he does offer Salvation to all....then what? I almost wish i could give my Salvation to those who dont believe just so they dont have to live in a cthonic existence for eternity......this is an honest question...what would you do to live eternally in a perfect existance? (regardless of belief i just want a straight answer...this isnt a comment to stir up anger...im trying to learn why you believe what you believe)...feel free to subscribe or leave comments on my site.....”
I would be willing to work for something I knew I could have. But God in his infinite wisdom has chosen not to reveal that it is true…only that…maybe it’s true, if you want it to be. For my constitution, I need it to be true regardless of whether I want it to be or not. That would be the only reasonable state of affairs. Then we’d be in business.
ARU
I would be willing to work for something I knew I could have.
When i'm bored i'll give you plenty of time to thumb thru the 160 verses, just to hopefully paint a picture that eternal life isnt an obstacle course.......
I'm still glad the world has it......
Like I've never read the Bible before. How about instead you check out the "Biblical Case for Agnosticism" on my xanga when you are bored (not to mention part 2 and part 3) and tell me why I should know what we don't know. I don't think the obstackle course is the important problem here. But having to believe something that is false by one's better judgment makes it by definition impossible. I think we are well beyond standard evangelism 101 here.
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works
It doesn't make sense to me that you say that God must be involved in everything that you do, even though Salvation isn't based upon works. Could you please explain that for me? Thanks.
Also, the Bible does state that man must be justified by works. ARU already cited James (see James 2:21 and 2:24 specifically). Also, Romans 2:13 states, "For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous." (taken from ESV).
ARU. You seem to have had this conversation before if I'm not mistaken. It could be likened to trying to make a television personality listen to you while standing in your front room talking to the tely. There just isn't much common context.
Good reading though.
I'm sure they're having these same kinds of "why don't they change their minds?" conversations on their xangas as we speak...though I do think the Biblical Case for Agnosticism ought to be some common context.
;)
Comments (13)
Religion really doesn’t solve anything but complicate the issue. Has God talked to you lately? Specifically? At length?
It's called faith.....either try it or quite trying to disprove what you dont believe in...its ironic...
“Religion really doesn’t solve anything but complicate the issue. Has God talked to you lately? Specifically? At length?
It's called faith.....either try it or quite trying to disprove what you dont believe in...its ironic...”
Already did try it dude. Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? And faith in what, may I ask? What specifically? God’s goodness? Providence? His work of salvation? How does any of that apply in any meaningful way? Other than just doubling for a positive attitude if you investigate any of those things a level or two down, you will find yourself in no different standing than a non-believer. Faith doesn’t tell you anything specifically. God’s goodness is spacious if you take what the bible says over all seriously. You don’t know if good or evil will befall you for just or unjust reasons. That’s the exact same layout of the unbeliever’s outlook on the future. God provides…for everyone. And thus what does that really mean when he also doesn’t provide for people indiscriminately? His work of salvation…if few will be saved, what good is that to an individual among billions? Not very good odds. If anything, faith exaggerates the highs and lows and muddles the issue and causes unnecessary conflicts between faiths, and generally takes your mind off of getting the job done. If you take it seriously at all, one does not really get anything out of faith other than an unjustified excuse to have a positive attitude…that not only likely blinds you to important details in life, but also goes hand in hand with the excess guilt one feels for the times when not having that “positive attitude” which is inescapable. In every other area of life, that’s called emotional abuse. By the way, this post didn’t try to prove or disprove it…just circumvent it as unnecessary in practical terms. I think I did that quite successfully and not in any belabored kind of way. My audience is to meta-scammers and our world of people that have to deal with false versions of what life is supposed to be about so I think it’s quite justified to reference it. Anyone have any actual problems with this post or just with where it isn't based? ARU aka “EmeticallyMeta-Scamming”His work of salvation…if few will be saved, what good is that to an individual among billions? Not very good odds.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....those sound like pretty good odds to me....
.......it has NOTHING to do with works.......
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? And faith in what, may I ask? What specifically?
God....Yehweh....name Him what you will....and yes I do have an idea as to what i'm talking about, although i understand the rhetorical nature of the question
.......I have faith in God, because I just cant believe in random chance.....you said you "tried" once.....i say try again......being a Christian (i prefer follower of Jesus Christ....Mormons call themselves Christians).....isnt easy...its actually harder.....the way to Salvation is easy, but the life isnt.....which is why most people say "they've tried"........
If you take it seriously at all, one does not really get anything out of faith other than an unjustified excuse to have a positive attitude…
Eternal life isnt anything? Pardain my confusion, but that seems like a lot to me......living an eternal existence thats perfect.....unfathomable.....all at the risk of not being able to not see or hear God so he doesnt exist?.......
The best theistic meta-scams point you in the direction of your mundane life anyway. Do your chores. Love your family and friends. Accept what you have when you have it. Etc. Do everything with your whole heart. What part of this requires God to be involved?
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works (if you would like references i could give about 160
).......Works once a person believes benefit the afterlife (heaven eternally).......my works are solely based on God to in the end glorify Him.....there are too many phenomena out there that can just be easily ignored to simply say that God doesnt exist because we cant physically see Him or touch Him......yet................i agree that we should find meaning in life.....and ask ourselves questions like "what am i good at?" and exercise....(gluttony is a huge pet-peeve of mine)......i dont think the part that agnostics and atheist understand is that being a "Believer" (we all technically believe in something pardon the jargon) we have just as many questions about our faith than we do answers......but a lot of our questions are insignificant to what God has pulled me through.......he doesnt just blindly seduce the masses to praise Him........He alone is meaning and life...I breath because he lets me 
........I ask honest open questions to God all the time, that others might think are blasphemous....i ask questions in Bible College to the teachers about God and Science and sometimes dont get responses like i would expect....but that doesnt mean that I can quit believing in a Higher being because I cant see him.....i dont fued with other religions because it gives purpose......i want them to know the "truth" (what we as Christians believe is absolute truth)......there are very few things that God cannot do (lie, cheat, steal, etc you get the picture)........"We can do all things in Christ who strengthens me".......I just have a hard time believing that you cant believe in a higher being......as deep of insight that this post has you seem to seek spiritual guidance from somewhere......but honestly what risk do you take in believing in God (Yahweh)...?? Other than the materialistic point of view that people like to live it up, party, get high, whatever the case may be....that seems too empty (not that you do those things).......What have you got to lose? Suppose you believe in Jesus and we find out in the end that it never existed then what? You could feel satisfied that you lived a good life, because you embrace the idea of helping others as a good thing ie what you might be good at......whereas what if you didn't believe.......what risk do you honestly take in the idea of belief? Hypothetically what if I am right....and Jesus is the Son of God and he does offer Salvation to all....then what? I almost wish i could give my Salvation to those who dont believe just so they dont have to live in a cthonic existence for eternity......this is an honest question...what would you do to live eternally in a perfect existance? (regardless of belief i just want a straight answer...this isnt a comment to stir up anger...im trying to learn why you believe what you believe)...feel free to subscribe or leave comments on my site.....
EA,
“"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".....those sound like pretty good odds to me.... .......it has NOTHING to do with works.......”
The Apostle James seems to disagree. And further to temper the picture, we’d also have to consider everyone that calls on Jesus whom Jesus will reject by saying he never knew them. No matter what Bible verse you add to this…the point remains in order to count the cost and wager your likelihood of success, few will be saved according to the Bible. This is neither here nor there to me, but it does seem rather ridiculous in retrospect. It’s like trying out for the basketball team. Most of us might as well just stay home. No amount of Disney movies is going to change that.
“God....Yehweh....name Him what you will....and yes I do have an idea as to what i'm talking about, although i understand the rhetorical nature of the question .......I have faith in God, because I just cant believe in random chance.....”
Oh, but random chance believes in you. ;)
“you said you "tried" once.....i say try again......being a Christian (i prefer follower of Jesus Christ....Mormons call themselves Christians).....isnt easy...its actually harder.....the way to Salvation is easy, but the life isnt.....which is why most people say "they've tried"........”
Well it wasn’t really about failure per se. It was more about needing a reality check and drowning for lack of one. I took Christianity seriously for 8 years. I don’t actually have a problem with working out my salvation as long as I am treated respectfully.
“If you take it seriously at all, one does not really get anything out of faith other than an unjustified excuse to have a positive attitude…“Eternal life isnt anything? Pardain my confusion, but that seems like a lot to me......living an eternal existence thats perfect.....unfathomable.....””
Eternal life isn’t on the table at this point in the discussion or I’d have to agree with you wouldn’t I?
“all at the risk of not being able to not see or hear God so he doesnt exist?.......”
Well there may be an infinite number of deities be-bopping around the allverse, but if they want to have a real relationship with me, they need to enter into my world through the front door of reality or else I’m going to consider them a thief and a robber for hopping the fence.
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works (if you would like references i could give about 160 )”
Yeah, there are plenty of other verses that clearly indicate otherwise. It’s a commingling of faith and works if you want to harmonize the message into something more coherent. There’s no sense downplaying works when ultimately it is an equal part of the equation of a Christian’s salvation. And anything in life for that matter. Good faith and relentless action are both required to serve any genuine goal.
“.......Works once a person believes benefit the afterlife (heaven eternally).......my works are solely based on God to in the end glorify Him.....there are too many phenomena out there that can just be easily ignored to simply say that God doesnt exist because we cant physically see Him or touch Him......”
Well I think I have some fairly good reasons for believing God, the Father does not exist that don’t have anything to do with the senses. But that would help.
“yet................i agree that we should find meaning in life.....and ask ourselves questions like "what am i good at?" and exercise....(gluttony is a huge pet-peeve of mine)......i dont think the part that agnostics and atheist understand is that being a "Believer" (we all technically believe in something pardon the jargon)”
I do have faith in object constancy. A lot of good that does me when the object isn’t there the next time I go back to it.
“we have just as many questions about our faith than we do answers......but a lot of our questions are insignificant to what God has pulled me through.......he doesnt just blindly seduce the masses to praise Him........He alone is meaning and life...I breath because he lets me ........I ask honest open questions to God all the time, that others might think are blasphemous....i ask questions in Bible College to the teachers about God and Science and sometimes dont get responses like i would expect....but that doesnt mean that I can quit believing in a Higher being because I cant see him.....i dont fued with other religions because it gives purpose......i want them to know the "truth" (what we as Christians believe is absolute truth)......”
Anyone who knows me knows I ask a relentless gauntlet of questions in any class. Obviously I’m interested in the truth.
“there are very few things that God cannot do (lie, cheat, steal, etc you get the picture)........"We can do all things in Christ who strengthens me".......I just have a hard time believing that you cant believe in a higher being......”
There certainly ought to be a greater state of being to our universe and a “higher” power…I just don’t think you can call it sentient. The sun is a higher power. You should check out my allverse posts to understand where I’m coming from there.
“as deep of insight that this post has you seem to seek spiritual guidance from somewhere......”
I don’t think that was implied anywhere in any of my posts. I think you are reading yourself into it.
“but honestly what risk do you take in believing in God (Yahweh)...??”
I don’t think it is good judgment to suppose God exists, so it really isn’t about risk.
“Other than the materialistic point of view that people like to live it up, party, get high, whatever the case may be....that seems too empty (not that you do those things).......What have you got to lose?”
Dignity and intellectual honesty.
“Suppose you believe in Jesus and we find out in the end that it never existed then what? You could feel satisfied that you lived a good life, because you embrace the idea of helping others as a good thing ie what you might be good at......whereas what if you didn't believe.......what risk do you honestly take in the idea of belief? Hypothetically what if I am right....and Jesus is the Son of God and he does offer Salvation to all....then what? I almost wish i could give my Salvation to those who dont believe just so they dont have to live in a cthonic existence for eternity......this is an honest question...what would you do to live eternally in a perfect existance? (regardless of belief i just want a straight answer...this isnt a comment to stir up anger...im trying to learn why you believe what you believe)...feel free to subscribe or leave comments on my site.....”
I would be willing to work for something I knew I could have. But God in his infinite wisdom has chosen not to reveal that it is true…only that…maybe it’s true, if you want it to be. For my constitution, I need it to be true regardless of whether I want it to be or not. That would be the only reasonable state of affairs. Then we’d be in business.
ARU
I would be willing to work for something I knew I could have.
When i'm bored i'll give you plenty of time to thumb thru the 160 verses, just to hopefully paint a picture that eternal life isnt an obstacle course.......
“Other than the materialistic point of view that people like to live it up, party, get high, whatever the case may be....that seems too empty (not that you do those things).......What have you got to lose?”
Dignity and intellectual honesty.
I'm still glad the world has it......
Like I've never read the Bible before. How about instead you check out the "Biblical Case for Agnosticism" on my xanga when you are bored (not to mention part 2 and part 3) and tell me why I should know what we don't know. I don't think the obstackle course is the important problem here. But having to believe something that is false by one's better judgment makes it by definition impossible. I think we are well beyond standard evangelism 101 here.
ARU
"Whether you work or sleep, eat or drink, do all things for the Lord" He has everything to do with it...considering that Salvation isnt based upon works
It doesn't make sense to me that you say that God must be involved in everything that you do, even though Salvation isn't based upon works. Could you please explain that for me? Thanks.
Also, the Bible does state that man must be justified by works. ARU already cited James (see James 2:21 and 2:24 specifically). Also, Romans 2:13 states, "For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous." (taken from ESV).
ARU. You seem to have had this conversation before if I'm not mistaken. It could be likened to trying to make a television personality listen to you while standing in your front room talking to the tely. There just isn't much common context.
Good reading though.
I'm sure they're having these same kinds of "why don't they change their minds?" conversations on their xangas as we speak...though I do think the Biblical Case for Agnosticism ought to be some common context.
;)
ARU
ARU, you and I have had an interesting discussion going on and off for a while. Look, go here http://www.turbulence.org/spotlight/thinking/chess.html Play the game. It doesn't matter if you like chess or not to any degree. It doesn't matter at all if you win or lose. That's not the point of the game. Just play the game. And look at the explanation, of how that machine works.